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Tulpa Discussion / tulpa-discussion
The channel for discussion strictly on the topic of tulpas. Take off-topic discussion to #lounge Forum's Tulpa Discussion Board: https://community.tulpa.info/forum/4-general-discussion/
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I think @Xe studied lots of the default mode network things lately
5:21 PM
insofar I figured I'm not the thoughts and I'm not the emotions – mostly because I can be an observer of those of hostey's
5:21 PM
what I'm curious about is if I'm an "observer" of my own though
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I doubt you are, or are even a true observer of your partner's.
5:22 PM
Especially given your prior explanation.
5:23 PM
By that explanation, "you" would be a dissociated shift in perspective.
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"Think the other way around, you aren't the consciousness, you are the parts that aren't, being made aware of itself through the consciousness." I like this, just as a statement on its own.
5:23 PM
Not that it's true or untrue, I just like it.
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The default mode network / monkey mind has been a very interesting thing to deal with. I've found sometimes you just need to help exhaust it of things to say, then it is happy.
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but then it all boils down to me being a bunch of modules that "feel" about something differently from my hostey and the thoughts being tagged as "shinyuu's" only because the brain is now trained to think of them differently based on those feelings
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Sure.
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it is all convincing to me as I'm yet to see actual "parallel processing" of two personalities at once
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If a tulpa is a shift in perspective relative to the host, then I would propose that making a tulpa is essentially creating another fixed perspective that does not have automatic and intrinsic "communication" with the initial perspective, nor does it have the same identity as described prior.
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Monkey mind, is that what it's called?
5:24 PM
I've always called it the Thinking mind, but monkey describes it much better.
5:25 PM
We haven't always been on the best of terms.
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@SkyeNet why no automatic communication though?
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i love that comment
5:26 PM
so much
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my working idea right now is that if you focus on how your tulpa feels instead of e.g. how your tulpa looks – you'll get a better progress in creating one
5:26 PM
hesitant to try on myself
5:26 PM
we don't have capacity for more tulpas
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@Shinyuu i've been thinking of making a tulpamancy guide focused on things like that, tulpamancy from the heart
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My working idea is that tulpas are created by giving them experience and developing them as a person, rather than trying to specifically "craft an identity" in any way.
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oh sure; I support that wholeheartedly; Winter
5:27 PM
that's how I've been explaining tulpas for.. well since I came to be
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Thus far, it has worked for everybody it has helped and they seem to have turned out with genuine autonomy (as far as is observable).
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especially given how my writer story characters that I create based on "craft an identity" idea are not tulpas (edited)
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...in addition, it has also dissuaded people from attempting to merely create a character to play as.
5:28 PM
Right.
5:29 PM
So, in terms of focusing on how a tulpa feels, I assume you mean focusing on making sure they have a solid sense of who they are as a person rather than who they are as identified with a specific visualized form, yes?
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no; I rather mean how they.. well.. feel in regards to any external or internal stimuli I think
5:30 PM
like; well; I guess like when you meditate and you follow through from your thoughts to your emotions – but in the reverse order
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Hm. Alright - then, I can assume you don't mean focusing on how a tulpa feels as a means of specifying how they should react to stimuli, but rather focusing on their existing reactions as a way of identifying them?
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e.g. you see an icecream and you want to buy it – because you have a feeling of it being delicious – but at the same time you can create a sensation of disgust for your tulpa – and from that a thought that they hate icecream because they overall hate cold things
5:32 PM
by manually attaching those "tags" you can filter your feelings and emotions on the core level and when those turn into thoughts they now carry the connotation of whose those thoughts are
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I disagree with creating thoughts/sensations for a tulpa in place of letting them experience it and develop those responses themselves.
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it's not more about forcing them to feel in a specific way as much as forcing yourself to not associate with an emotion
5:34 PM
as long as you feel something and in your mind it's "not you" it is easy to attach it to "oh must be my tulpa then"
5:35 PM
in fact many tulpa guides implicitly follow this pattern
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Hmm. I disagree with that, actually.
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could you elaborate?
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that only works if you have exactly 1 tulpa (and even then it might be something else)
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something else like?
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However, it is fairly clear from all my experience in discussion and in practice that not all thoughts are necessarily you/a tulpa.
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idk, an intrusive thought I guess
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...tch. One of my messages is refusing to send.
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the whole notion of an "intrusive thought" is an interesting topic
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I hate when that happens
5:38 PM
messages not sending, that is
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unless you think of them in the context of a schizophrenic disorder
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I was going to say that I agree it is easy to attach random thoughts that are "not you" to a tulpa, but I disagree with it as a good idea.
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I really want to get @Xe to focus on having all her girls meditating in order and to see how they figure who they are as they do that
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@Shinyuu "in order"?
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one by one
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any particular order?
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no particular order but start with a clear sense of who's starting it
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People don't necessarily identify with every random thought that comes into their heads - this is not uncommon at all, quite a few people have had the reaction of "where did that thought come from?" regardless of whether they have tulpas or not.
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@SkyeNet absolutely. but when you have some shape of your tulpa's personality in mind you can accredit some of the thoughts of a pool to them because "they don't feel like mine and don't feel super random" right?
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I don't think it is a good idea, no.
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@Shinyuu what kind of meditation? should the girls let the barriers between eachother fall completely like they normally do?
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anapana would work I think?
5:42 PM
that's more than I can do; at least
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I think it is a better idea to accept that thoughts that are unrecognized as "yourself" or "the tulpa" may or may not be them, and waiting for them to become capable of... For lack of a better term, "thinking more strongly" is a better idea.
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@Shinyuu are you wanting it rooted in the external cycle of breath or an internal one? (this is significant to the micro-process on my side)
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That way, they can clarify who they are compared to any random thoughts stuck onto them.
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@SkyeNet I was basing this off the notion that you don't think thoughts; but thoughts are forced into your consciousness instead
5:43 PM
@Xe external for everyone
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@Shinyuu right, lemme finish up this PR and i'll start a 10 minute cycle at the top of the hour
5:44 PM
@Shinyuu i kinda wish i had an EEG helmet to capture this lol
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"So reason does play a role in what a person finally does. Still, this experiment suggests that maybe reason can play that role only by influencing the ultimate motivator: feelings. As Hume put it, “Reason alone can never be a motive to any action of the will.” Buying something ultimately comes down to feeling good about the purchase—or at least feeling better than walking away from the purchase feels."
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i might end up buying that openBCD one
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Sorry this is late/off topic now, but in that reddit comment, "Come back to what's important, right here and now. It's the silence within -" leads me to believe that person had recently read (or continued thinking about) Eckhart Tolle's "Power of Now" and "Stillness Speaks", as that's basically what the books themselves say. And, that's an example of one of the sorts of things we've read over the years. Stuff like that, I don't know what to call it other than "self-help"
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wait; that's the other quote.
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@Reisen honestly that's good old fashioned mindfulness, oppan buddha style
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True, but I figured Tolle's books were the most popular preacher of such things, some years back.
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his books are probably just repackaged buddhism xD
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Hardly any of that stuff is original, but if people didn't get it the first time, nothing wrong with saying it again.
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If, by comparison, we are considering thoughts to be like pieces of paper with ideas written on them dropped into a room with "you" and "your tulpa", I think it would be better to let your tulpa grasp their own pieces of paper/identify their own thoughts - rather than forcing papers/thoughts into their own hand/identity.
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Nah, they aren't, he's certainly put his own twist on things. But absolutely Buddhism was probably a lot of the influence.
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right; here it is
5:46 PM
"Anyway, the main point these meditation teachers are making is the same as the upshot of the modular-mind model: the conscious self doesn’t create thoughts; it receives them. And that reception, it seems, is the part of the process Goldstein had observed with much more objectivity and clarity than I’d been able to muster—the part when the thoughts enter conscious awareness, the part when they “bubble up.” After conveying to Goldstein that I hadn’t meant that thoughts actually harbor a desire to capture our awareness, I asked whether, nonetheless, they sometimes seem like active things, not passive things. “In other words,” I said, “they’re actors in your consciousness that you’ve got to deal with, and you’re in the habit of going along with them, but that’s not necessary.” “Correct. And they become a lot less active when we see them for what they are. When we’re not pulled into the drama of them. It’s sort of like going to the movies. We go to the movies and there’s a very absorbing story and we’re pulled into the story and we feel so many emotions . . . excited, afraid, in love. . . . And then we sit back and see these are just pixels of light projected on a screen. Everything we thought is happening is not really happening. It’s the same way with our thoughts. We get caught up in the story, in the drama of them, forgetting their essentially insubstantial nature.”
5:46 PM
sorry for a big quote
5:46 PM
I think this one is relevant to the topic though.
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I suppose half the people are no longer here, but discussion like this is what I was aiming for in #lounge earlier.
5:48 PM
There's no reason to be passive aggressive, we're doing fine here.
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and here's how he describes the thoughts observed in meditative state: "I asked, “So, then, in meditation there can be the sense that thoughts are just kind of coming out of nowhere, so to speak, almost like voices?” “Yeah,” he answered. I’m always happy to help sane people not sound like they’re crazy, so I added, “Although it’s not like you’re hearing things . . . literally?” “Yeah, correct.”
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I guess the "Lounge" part kind of ruined it.
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I mean; it hits very close to how I see the whole mindvoice thing really.
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...I do think the rather large question is what exactly is doing the deciding of what thoughts apply to what identity if not more thoughts that underpin things even further.
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Well, learning to switch well after learning about all of the above sorts of stuff, helped us realize that there's some form of primary consciousness that isn't us.
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yiss!
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Sure, I'm the one "thinking" right now, but I could switch with Lucilyn, and she thinks nothing like me.
5:49 PM
Something changed, yet something didn't.
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I've heard of that, some people call it the OS
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That's why I said identities are like instructions to the consciousness.
5:50 PM
Not a huge fan of basically any terms aside from consciousness though.
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it's all that's left in the front if you switch without tulpas (or commit egocide)
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OS can never become a mainstream term.
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